Neal Van Zutphen on Office Design, Easing Client Stress, and Being a “Healer”
Journal of Financial Planning: June 2019
Interview by Carly Schulaka
WHO: Neal Van Zutphen, CFP®, FBS®, CRPC®
WHAT: Owner and president of Intrinsic Wealth Counsel Inc.
WHAT'S ON HIS MIND: “The best thing we can do is create a space that is conducive to high trust and low fear.”
1.Our mutual friend and colleague, John Grable, has done research on how to arrange your office to create a stress-free environment for clients. Grable has said that you have perhaps the best office space in the country for managing client stress. How is your office set up?
That is very kind of John to mention our space.
When I bought out my former partner, I knew I needed to develop an office that was more focused on a holistic life planning format and included the concepts of financial therapy. I spent a lot of time researching what needed to be done.
The first thing we do is post the American flag on the outside corner of our conference room. We set that in place every day. Psychological research shows that the American flag suggests trustworthiness. It also makes for a great way to help clients find our space. There’s nothing worse than feeling like you’re late and then not knowing where to find the office.
The outside space has a large water feature with shade and plants, so you’re entering a space that’s a more natural environment. When clients come through the front door, I’m usually there to greet them. My office window looks out to the parking lot, so I can see when they arrive.
A screen in the reception area will display their names; “Welcome John and Sally!” for example. The reception area does have a couple of chairs, but we don’t usually have anybody waiting. If we have a two-hour meeting, we have reserved time in advance for prep and after for a post-meeting debrief. When a client first comes in for a meeting, oftentimes our whole team will take a moment to come up front to say hello. The greeting process is important in setting the stage for productive, meaningful meetings.
My wife is an interior designer, and we designed the office space with specific colors in mind—what my wife calls a “restful palette.” These are more muted colors that induce a sense of calm and comfort. It helps create a space that welcomes clients and makes them feel at home.
We don’t have the news blaring or CNN on the TV. On our office walls, we have only one Ibbotson chart of the markets. There are no other visual cues to the markets, dollar signs, or planning issues.
We bring them to the conference room/den—which are two rooms separated by double doors—and we leave the double doors open so clients can choose where they want to sit. That exercise of choice is a demonstration of a psychological state called locus of control, and it helps clients feel a sense of control and safety. We do 100 percent of client meetings either in the conference room or the den, or a combination of both.
The conference room seats eight comfortably, which enables us to host client family meetings, if needed. The room has a 65-inch screen where we can co-discover and create their financial life plans in real time. We also use this space for video conferences with Casey Van Zutphen, CFA, CFP®, who is my partner and our portfolio manager based in California, as well as with clients’ other advisers. Forty percent of our clients are out of state, so a lot of times we’ll bring them up on the screen.
On one of the conference room chairs we have a Winnie the Pooh, an Eeyore, and a Mr. Bill (from “Saturday Night Live”). We use these dolls as metaphors in optimistic planning (Winnie the Pooh), pessimistic scenario planning (Eeyore), and Mr. Bill relates to market volatility and feeling you have no control. These characters engage the emotional brain and generally promote positive emotions and smiles from clients. The more positive emotions you can create for clients, the less stress they’ll experience.
The conference room opens up to the den. The den has four large leather chairs that are so comfortable you could fall asleep in them. It’s a space designed for conversation and relaxation. In the den is also a library of some of my favorite books, including what I’ve read and use for research, as well as books that I use as prescriptive gifts for clients when they present with a particular need. And, the bookshelves provide a sound barrier for crucial conversations.
Also in the den is a refreshment space with coffee, water, pop, and snacks. Clients usually feel comfortable enough to make themselves at home and help themselves. We have chocolate on the table, which is another research-based thing. Chocolate does release some endorphins and has a stress-reducing effect; and we like dark chocolate because it’s heart healthy.
My mom was in the service and she was awarded three bronze medals. I was given an American flag from my siblings when she passed. I have that flag in the den as well.
The painting in the den is also in that “restful palette” color scheme, and that’s what clients usually see if they’re seated closest to the screen in the conference room. From that seat, they can see the screen with their plan and all the numbers, but their back is to the walkway so they’re not distracted, and when they look straight ahead, they see this landscape painting in the background designed to create a sense of calm.
2.What do your clients say about your office space?
We get a lot of positive feedback. Clients like the flag as a landmark to find our space, and they express feeling comfortable and calm. This is another big research item. Clients experience stress when dealing with money issues as well as life planning issues that have little to do with money. The best thing we can do is create a space that is conducive to high trust and low fear. Clients love our artwork and color schemes, and the feeling of openness with big window views to rest their minds when collecting their thoughts. Many long-term clients look forward to visiting because they know this is time for them to discuss what’s important.
3.What advice do you have for fellow planners who are looking to make some changes to their office design?
Eliminate as many visual and auditory cues regarding the markets, politics, and news.
Create calming spaces. If you can’t change the structure of the environment, then try to change the colors. That restful palette matters a lot.
Go through Dr. Grable and Dr. Britt’s research [for example, “Your Office May Be a Stressor: Understand How the Physical Environment of Your Office Affects Financial Counseling Clients” in the 2012 issue of The Standard, volume 30, issue 2].
Finally, ask somebody who’s never been to your office before to come with fresh eyes and report back on everything they see and experience at your office that is stressful or calming.
4.In a December 2016 Journal paper, you and co-authors Brad Klontz and Kate Fries wrote about how chronic financial stress is associated with serious health problems, suggesting that financial planners are in a unique position to act as “healers” by embracing their role as “financial health physicians.” Can you share an anecdote from your own practice in which you have lived into the role of financial health physician?
Broadly speaking, the financial planning process is a kind of intervention, as we’re dealing with couples’ money and life situations, which include property and casualty insurance, health, disability and life insurance, investments, estate planning, wealth accumulation and decumulation. Adding to this are their worries over money, budgets, their health, work, and kids, which really highlights the need for personal financial planning and our profession.
And if we’re doing comprehensive financial planning, then clients will become healthier as they make progress on their plans. For example, they become healthier after they sign their estate planning documents because now that’s no longer a fear in their system that causes them to lose sleep at night. They become healthier once they get their life insurance in place knowing that their loved ones are going to be secure in case they die too soon. And they become healthier in their relationships with each other and themselves when they truly manage their spending, savings, etc., together to reach goals they have co-created.
To give a specific case, here’s one example with a couple I was working with. We were determining how much life insurance was needed. I don’t sell life insurance, so I referred them to an agent. They went through the underwriting process, and the husband’s blood work and his exam revealed a very serious health issue. His primary care physician confirmed the illness, and two years later, he was cured. Had we not been through the planning process, had he not examined their plans from a wider perspective and decided he needed more life insurance, he may never have had the diagnosis. In so many ways, the financial planner truly can be part of the healing profession.
5.In 2010 you wrote in the Journal about the Happiness Risk/Reward Pyramid, a three-dimensional model that helps planners and clients identify clients’ intrinsic needs. Do you still use this model today?
Yes, I still use this model as a visual cue when meeting with clients and as a teaching tool about money issues and what goes into a financial plan. It is a great visual aid to help clients self-assess where they are. It creates conversations all the time.
I use the pyramid to go through Elisabeth Kübler-Ross’ stages of death and dying as the model for emotional stages when experiencing change, and Prochaska’s models for the cognitive stages of change. Then, I use Maslow’s hierarchy of needs to identify areas of need that they have that relate directly to their plans. A few examples are: safety and security have everything to do with insurance needs, basic estate planning docs, and savings (emergency or otherwise). The apex of Maslow’s hierarchy can often be expressed in the deeper forms of estate planning because that is the point at which you can design something that transcends your own lifetime to your next generation.
The pyramid also has material associated with self-determination theory, Viktor Frankl, and the search for meaning and transcendence, and having happiness as a result of the pursuit of things that are far greater than ourselves.
I’ve been working on version 2.0, because more research has come out since it was first created. The complaint may be that it’s too big or has too much information, but for me, more is more and that’s way better.
6. In a 2007 Journal article, you argued that interpersonal skills matter more than technical expertise when it comes to successful financial plans and client relationships. “Principles of communication and counseling” are part of CFP Board’s curriculum, but does more need to be done to teach CFP® professionals interpersonal skills?
People matter and relationships matter. Everyone assumes that everyone can communicate and that interpersonal communication skills are naturally developed. However, if you consider the amount of miscommunication and misunderstandings that take place on a daily basis, you can clearly see the importance of interpersonal communication skills. It doesn’t matter how technically excellent your planning skills might be. If you can’t connect and communicate with clients, they won’t hire you, or if they do, you risk setting yourself and the client up for failure, or worse, yet, as I wrote back 2007, lawsuits or arbitration.
What’s missing is more experiential learning opportunities to apply effective communication skills. If you don’t have a chance to practice interpersonal communication skills in situations that offer something close to real life, then that skill set won’t be innate. You need people who are experts in effective communication to teach you and observe and listen to see if you’re actually making a connection.
We’ve got brand new CFPs out there who make the assumption that they already know how to communicate. They can talk, they’re on the phone, they’re texting, and they’re like everybody else. But what about the face-to-face, eye-to-eye contact of personal relationships? How to talk to another human being face-to-face, how to be at risk, how to be voluntarily vulnerable in a personal relationship so that you can make a human connection? Those kinds of connections are necessary for our happiness and survival. These are also the kind of connections that solidify trust between planner and client.
7. You have a graduate certificate in financial therapy from Kansas State, and you hold the Financial Behavior Specialist™ designation from the Financial Psychology Institute. How are you applying this specialized knowledge to your work with clients?
I use my own research and what I have learned from [these two programs] in all of my interactions. I use a lot of different tools. I’ve also learned to not let the client feel like they’re in therapy. Many times, at the end of a planning session, clients will say something like, “I feel like I have just been in therapy.” I tell them that in a way, they have. But the key is to provide therapy without calling it therapy. Listening skills, and feeding back and feeding forward, translating, and seeding ideas help clients change beliefs and behaviors. The planning process provides a way for clients to learn a new language around money.
8. You have been practicing financial planning for 35 years. What is the biggest change that has occurred in the profession over that time?
Besides tech?
In 1994 I was rear-ended twice within 45 days. I went through two years of physical therapy, and of course there were lawsuits. I was making some money; at the time I was fee and commission-based. But the legal counsel was unable to demonstrate a loss of income because there was no data on Certified Financial Planners’ income. My lawsuit settlement had to do with reimbursement of medical expenses, some pain and suffering, but no loss of income.
One of the differences is the tremendous work the CFP Board has done to position the CFP® [certificant] in the marketplace as a professional. Today, if a new planner were in an accident and they were claiming for lost income, it would be very easy for lawyers to get enough data, which tells me that we’ve transitioned. The CFP Board has moved the CFP® mark to a profession. Full and fair [fee] disclosure has also really helped, and the fiduciary standard has moved us further along the lines to a profession.
9. You are widely quoted in the press—from USA Today to The New York Times. What advice do you have for other planners who would like to be sources for the media?
My first piece of advice is to get the media training from FPA [OneFPA.org/mediatraining]. I also serve as the CFP Board Ambassador for the Phoenix metropolitan area, so I get reporter inquiries from FPA, and from CFP Board, and sometimes they come from NAPFA.
The key is to get the training, get on the list, start getting those inquiries, and see which ones are the ones that you get excited about, and then only respond to those. As a result, and over time, you’ll get a little quote here, a little quote there; it’s a building process.
10. You put a lot of thought and effort into easing your clients’ stress. How do you, personally, find stress-relief?
I love to learn. Taking additional course work is both fun and relaxing. I read quite a bit, but it must be non-fiction (I get my fiction fix from movies and great TV shows). I attempt to play golf and sometimes make a good shot. I enjoy hiking as it gives me an opportunity to exercise while listening to a book. I love spending time with my family, a nice glass of wine, or a cold beer, and great conversations.
That doesn’t mean I’m always not stressed. I can use my stress as motivation to help me get things done, versus just being stressed out about my stress. A friend of mine tells me that worry is an interest you pay on a debt you don’t owe. Only worry about stuff that really happens; not stuff that you think could happen.